View Full Version : Google Page Rank
Tonight, for the first time ever since my website has been existence, I noticed that some of the sub pages (particularly some of my links pages) of my website actually have a higher PR than my home page. For example, my "auto insurance" links page has a PR4, however my home page has a PR3. How can this be possible? I have not exchanged links with any websites that are pointing my anchor text links to these other pages. ALL my anchor text links in existence point to my home page. Can someone please explain why this is happening?
RDT
FloridaLifeandHealth.com
simons1321
04-05-2006, 02:36 PM
People are finding that your subpages are more important than your homepage and are deciding to link to those pages. These aren't reciprocal links, they're simply other webmasters who have found a particular page on your site of importance or are quoting it and are linking to that page. In G, if you do a "link:http://www.yoursite.com/your-subpage.html" search (wo quotes), it will show you who is linking to that specific page. My bet is that theres probably more people linking to your subpage than your homepage or that there are more relevant links pointing to your subpage.
Hi Simons1321, thanks for your input. However, i really don't think what you said is the case because when I do a link popularity check of one of these PR4 sub-pages, Google shows NO (zero / nada) valid indexed backlinks at all to this particular page. My home page has about 25 valid Google backlinks that they are indexing. There is just something back asswards with this, and it just doesn't make any sense at all. Furthermore, two of my PR4 subpages that I am referring to are links pages, and they are very new.
I have asked this same question on another SEO forum last night, and three of the members JUST noticed the same exact thing last night, like myself. This just started happening last night, according to them also. So Google is doing something with the PR's that is effecting certain websites' sub-pages like this. I guess there is just no rhyme or reason to the whole Google PR thing. Just doesn't make sense, so we just have to go with Google does, so whatever.
Also, instead of going through the link popularity tool, while I was replying here, I just did a search in Google like you said for this same particular PR4 sub-page as "link:http://www.floridalifeandhealth.com/lmanager7.html", which is my Florida Resources page, and it comes up as NO websites linking to that page. If you go directly to this page, you'll see that it has a PR4. So something is WAY out of wack with the way PR's are supposed to be working. Like I said, makes no sense at all. Thanks again for your input.
RDT
FloridaLifeandHealth.com
nozzmoking
04-06-2006, 10:03 AM
Sounds like Google is playing around again.
Googgle has publicly stated that PR is meant to be treated as a rough guide to a page's popularity, and not to be taken too seriously. Same with backlinks, you may know of a couple of thousand sites linking to you, but G may only report a couple of hundred.
It's pretty much an accepted fact these days that chasing PR, is a waste of time. There are many, many sites with a very low PR, but who sit at the top of the rankings.
If only it was as simple as:
Site A has a PR of 3, and is in position 10 in the rankings.
Site B has a PR of 3, and is in position 11, bangs in a ton of recip. links and automatically moves to no. 9 in the rankings.
Same scenario with backlinks.
I'm not employed in SEO, but I do feel for the guys who have to do it for a living, as customers swallow in the whole PR thing and start demanding that their site is at least PR 4 or 5.
Returning to the original question, it's just possible that the sub pages you mention have more Google fodder (keyword-rich content) than the homepage, which may be more keyword-diluted. You may need to check the keyword density on the home page and adjust if necessary.
Your site's code doesn't pass validation - the cleaner the code, the more likely the SE robots can make sense of it: http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.floridalifeandhealth.co m
simons1321
04-06-2006, 05:26 PM
It's pretty much an accepted fact these days that chasing PR, is a waste of time. There are many, many sites with a very low PR, but who sit at the top of the rankings.
start demanding that their site is at least PR 4 or 5.
Why demand a PR 4 or higher if chasing PR is a waste of time?
Your site's code doesn't pass validation - the cleaner the code, the more likely the SE robots can make sense of it: http://validator.w3.org/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.floridalifeandhealth.co m
Although validation makes a clean site, its not necessary at all to a)rank highly in the SERPs or b)for a spider to crawl your site.
Do a search for just about anything in any search engine and check the validation for the top 3 sites. The vast majority, if not all of them, won't pass validation. You can even check some of the biggest websites out there.. for example go check apple's or macromedia's sites. Heck, the white house has 44 errors, but i'll bet they rank #1 for a lot of keywords, not to mention they have a PR10. How bout MSN, y!, G? When the search engines themselves dont give a hoot about validation, i doubt you have to worry about it. In fact out of the top 10 english websites with the most traffic (according to alexa), guess how many validate? drum rolll please................................ 1! Microsoft in case youre wondering
Do a search for just about anything in any search engine and check the validation for the top 3 sites. The vast majority, if not all of them, won't pass validation. You can even check some of the biggest websites out there.. for example go check apple's or macromedia's sites. Heck, the white house has 44 errors, but i'll bet they rank #1 for a lot of keywords, not to mention they have a PR10. How bout MSN, y!, G? When the search engines themselves dont give a hoot about validation, i doubt you have to worry about it. In fact out of the top 10 english websites with the most traffic (according to alexa), guess how many validate? drum rolll please................................ 1! Microsoft in case you're wondering
WOW!... I was just coming on here to basically say the same exact thing. Yeah, after nozzmoking mentioned the validation through the W3.org tool, I did a search for some of the most competitive search terms in existence, and validated the top sites. Not one of them had less than 25 errors! My site has 22, so I think I'm doing pretty good...lol!
Oh yeah, and by the way, the White House's site (whitehouse.gov) has 62 errors, instead of 44, with a PR of 10! The White House's webmasters should take notes from the Internal Revenue Service's website (irs.gov), because they did pass validation...lol.
But get a load of this... the number one website on Google for one of the most competitive search terms in existence "insurance", is insure.com. Do you want to know how many errors that site has after validation? Drum roll please................... 317!!! If that doesn't prove validation doesn't mean squat for the SERP's, I don't know what does! You're exactly right simons1321, I appreciate the confirmation to my findings.
RDT
FloridaLifeandHealth.com
nozzmoking
04-11-2006, 09:57 AM
simons1321
Why demand a PR 4 or higher if chasing PR is a waste of time?
You seem to have mis-quoted me here. I didn't say I demand a PR 4 or higher. I'm basically saying that many clients of SEO companies have heard about Google PR and are instructing the company to achieve a higher PR value for their site, thereby adding further pressure to the SEO task.
I wrote: I'm not employed in SEO, but I do feel for the guys who have to do it for a living, as customers swallow in the whole PR thing and start demanding that their site is at least PR 4 or 5.
simons1321
Although validation makes a clean site, its not necessary at all to a)rank highly in the SERPs or b)for a spider to crawl your site.
Agreed, but I'd rather have a site with unbroken code, that works on all the major browsers and that's easy for the robots to digest. If you disagree with standards compliancy then fine, that's your decision. Nobody can agree on validation http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum3/16364.htm but if there's the slightest chance having a site that doesn't validate affects your rankings in any way, then surely it makes sense to fix it. I mean, we're not talking rocket science here! You'd be surprised at how many people don't even have a DOCTYPE declaration.
simons1321
Heck, the white house has 44 errors, but i'll bet they rank #1 for a lot of keywords, not to mention they have a PR10. How bout MSN, y!, G? When the search engines themselves dont give a hoot about validation, i doubt you have to worry about it. In fact out of the top 10 english websites with the most traffic (according to alexa), guess how many validate? drum rolll please................................ 1! Microsoft in case youre wondering
When my site gets as big as any of the ones you have mentioned, then I'll probably dump my clean code practise. Until then, I'll carry on doing what works for me: Regular unique, fresh content. Careful linking strategy. Clean code.
RDT. If you don't like people trying to help by making suggestions, then I recommend you stay clear of forums and just carry on the way you are. Try looking past the end of your nose for a change. BTW, just did a search for: Life and Health Insurance Florida on Google. :)
Don't bother replying guys, as I can see which way this thread is developing, but before you dismiss every suggestion with a wave of the hand I'd seriously consider taking a look at the broader picture. My site affords me a very comfortable living, and I know what it took to get me here. :)
Last word:
You seem to be an expert simons1321 so I thought I too ought to listen to your excellent theory on why RDT's sub pages have a higher PR than the home page.
You wrote:
People are finding that your subpages are more important than your homepage and are deciding to link to those pages. These aren't reciprocal links, they're simply other webmasters who have found a particular page on your site of importance or are quoting it and are linking to that page.
Well, I just did that and guess what, drum roll please ..................................zilch, nada, nothing. Not one page linking to the 'Auto Insurance' page at: http://www.floridalifeandhealth.com/lmanager6.html
I rest my case.
Enjoy each other guys. :)
simons1321
04-12-2006, 07:47 PM
In the past my assumption would have been correct, but it appears that something odd is happening with PR.
read more here http://forums.searchenginewatch.com/showthread.php?t=10917
and Nozz, its just a forum... there will always be at least one person with an opposing opinion.
RDT. If you don't like people trying to help by making suggestions, then I recommend you stay clear of forums and just carry on the way you are. Try looking past the end of your nose for a change. BTW, just did a search for: Life and Health Insurance Florida on Google.
:eek: Huh???... Did I ever say that I didn't want any help, Nozzmoking? 317 errors after validation for a site that is number one on Google for one of the most sought after search terms around kinda tells me that I rest my case too. I'm not saying that you're not successful with your website.... you probably are. But the facts speak for themselves.
It's obvious though that you don't like to be opposed, and you take it pretty personally. I really do appreciate your advice, but if I am supposed to stay clear of forums according to you, because "I don't like people trying to help by making suggestions" (which is not true at all), then I would suggest for YOU to stay clear of forums if you take any opposing sides (based upon factual findings) as personally as you do. I mean, listen to yourself, it's unbelievable that you carried on the way you did. Actually it was quite comical. Hey Nozzmoking, you sure you weren't Zzmoking something when you wrote that???... Hey, just kidding, don't take it personally... PLEASE don't take it personally! But we will take your advice on one thing, and that's the suggestion that we will enjoy ourselves on here... right Simons1321? :D
monica
04-15-2006, 10:06 AM
[QUOTE=nozzmoking]Sounds like Google is playing around again.
Googgle has publicly stated that PR is meant to be treated as a rough guide to a page's popularity, and not to be taken too seriously. Same with backlinks, you may know of a couple of thousand sites linking to you, but G may only report a couple of hundred.
I have to agree with you, Google must be playing around – more like messing with my head. My parenting site has been a pr2 for about a month and then a week ago I went to my site and clicked the get data on the Google tool bar and my site showed a pr7. Now, I have been diligently exchanging links with relevant sites that have good content but this was hard to believe. I closed my browser and went back to my site checked the data and it showed pr2
elliot
04-17-2006, 08:18 PM
What many people fail to understand is that links are only one part of the equation Google uses in assigning page rank.
What may be happening here is that your home page covers several topics and your subpages on such subjects as "auto insurance" are much more focused on a single subject with content that is close to 100 percent relevant to that content. Seeing such a tightly knit, single-issue page, Google awards it a higher rank.
In its original incarnation, Google returns were very heavily influenced by links, but the importance of links has decreased as Google's technology has developed and matured. These days, more than ever, it is important to design your link strategy to benefit customers and potential customers rather than to try and manipulate search engines.
________
Hayley (http://www.girlcamfriend.com/cam/Hayley/)
What many people fail to understand is that links are only one part of the equation Google uses in assigning page rank.
What may be happening here is that your home page covers several topics and your subpages on such subjects as "auto insurance" are much more focused on a single subject with content that is close to 100 percent relevant to that content. Seeing such a tightly knit, single-issue page, Google awards it a higher rank.
In its original incarnation, Google returns were very heavily influenced by links, but the importance of links has decreased as Google's technology has developed and matured. These days, more than ever, it is important to design your link strategy to benefit customers and potential customers rather than to try and manipulate search engines.
Well this seems to make sense, but it's not what I have seen from observing other top ranked sites that also have very high PR. For example, with the search term "computer" Apple.com usually comes up as number 1. As of two days ago, they were, now Dell holds the top position. But position is not the topic here, PR is. Apple.com has a PR 10, but do you know how many times the word "computer" appears on their home page?.... drum roll please..................... 1! Oh, and by the way, the word "computer" appears for a grand total of TWO times on Dell's home page, with a PR 8. That's focused content at it's finest, huh?...lol. However, when looking at Apple's Google indexed relevant backlinks, they have a grand total of 88,900. After taking notes from this scenario, it can be concluded that page content is extremely insignificant to relevant backlinks when measuring PR.
With what you're saying about focused content of a page would just encourage the use of spamming, and is the sole reason Google changed to the relevant backlink system to begin with. Google measures the "importance of a page" by how many other websites give that particular page a vote, or content relevant text backlinks. How "important" can a page be with no votes from other websites? Just because a page is 100% content focused on a single subject, does NOT mean it's "important" in the eyes of Google. The Apple.com example proves this completely.
sharonbretl
04-24-2006, 01:10 AM
I was wondering why google only lists some of the many sites I am link to. Also, the number of links linking to you go up and down all the time at google's will! Is it true google picks and chooses the sites they like or dislike? I can't imagine a search engine having the capability of being selective, but it sure does seem that way when one is at the other end looking in.
:rolleyes: (http://www.treasuresbysharon.com/cart)
elliot
04-24-2006, 05:05 PM
Does anyone know how Google decides return position among all pages with the same rank?
________
HotJennisButt (http://www.girlcamfriend.com/cam/HotJennisButt/)
elliot
04-24-2006, 05:14 PM
Oh, and by the way, the word "computer" appears for a grand total of TWO times on Dell's home page, with a PR 8. That's focused content at it's finest, huh?...l
When you are the largest direct vendor of computers in the world you get millions and millions of hits -- figure probably 10 or 15 hits for every computer Dell sells and you've probably got a good ballpark figure -- many more hits than your nearest competitor.
That kind of traffic will always get you a first page or better return position.
Likewise Apple's returns on the word "computer" (bear in mind it is, as the Google crawler knows, officially Apple Computer Company) benefit from the gazillion hits it gets from the iPod.
________
Threesome mwm (http://www.****tube.com/categories/1076/mwm/videos/1)
When you are the largest direct vendor of computers in the world you get millions and millions of hits -- figure probably 10 or 15 hits for every computer Dell sells and you've probably got a good ballpark figure -- many more hits than your nearest competitor.
That kind of traffic will always get you a first page or better return position.
Likewise Apple's returns on the word "computer" (bear in mind it is, as the Google crawler knows, officially Apple Computer Company) benefit from the gazillion hits it gets from the iPod.
Elliot, I kinda see your point, but what it sounds like you're saying is that Apple and Dell are in the top positions in the SERP's just because they are the largest vendors of computers in the world, and has nothing to do with SEO. The search results are the search results, and I don't think that Google is going to put them there just because of their gross profits of computer sales, unless there is something on the darker side going on between Google and mega companies like this.
These big companies that have websites have to play by the same SEO rules as the little guys. Apple didn't acquire almost 90,000 Google indexed back-links for nothing... they're doing that because they know that they have to play by the rules as everyone else.
elliot
05-18-2006, 10:40 PM
Sorry for the confusion, that's not what I was trying to say. I was trying to say that Apple and Dell rank high because they get the most hits, not because they have the most sales.
Anyway, I just proved my own theory wrong byt Googling "computer software." I very carefully scanned the first three pages of returns and didn't get a single sight of microsoft.com.
I do (very idly) wonder how Matt Cutts would explain that.
________
Digital vaporizer (http://digitalvaporizers.info)
psilver
08-07-2006, 05:51 PM
simons1321
You seem to have mis-quoted me here. I didn't say I demand a PR 4 or higher. I'm basically saying that many clients of SEO companies have heard about Google PR and are instructing the company to achieve a higher PR value for their site, thereby adding further pressure to the SEO task.
This is so true... we run sites that have PRs of 4, 25 backlinks, reasonable compliance (5 errors), but great content that show up in the first 6 search returns always on page 1 for some 30 key phrases. We have others with PRs 6 or 8 that have more than 2000 backlinks and more compliance (0 errors) that compete less well for the same keywords, but these sites are not as rich in content. The clients stress PR as if it were identical with high placement. It is not. Sometimes at the expense of other factors for good placement.
Of course, it does pay to have links to highly ranked sites, and from pages that have high ranks, but this alone will not get you high placement.
Not to state the obvious, but it pays to do all these things, as I am convinced that combined, they do result in high search engine placement.
MH Vishal
04-27-2009, 01:19 AM
Google Page Rank is Google's method of ranking individual web pages. Google looks at the pages that link to your page and how they rank in terms of importance. Specifically pages that have links from important, high quality pages, receive a higher Page Rank. Google combines Page Rank with sophisticated text-matching techniques to find pages, which are both important and relevant to your search.
The Page Rank system is a numerical grade from 0 to 10. In a simplistic breakdown, think of Page Rank in terms of point value. The following numbers are not valid; they are just used to visualize the process.
Page Rank Value
4 100
5 1000
6 10000
The value increase by ten folds for each level of Page Rank. This is very similar to how it is.
sujancsecuet
06-05-2009, 09:32 AM
[QUOTE=nozzmoking]Sounds like Google is playing around again.
I have to agree with you, Google must be playing around – more like messing with my head. My parenting site has been a pr2 for about a month and then a week ago I went to my site and clicked the get data on the Google tool bar and my site showed a pr7. Now, I have been diligently exchanging links with relevant sites that have good content but this was hard to believe. I closed my browser and went back to my site checked the data and it showed pr2
I also agree to you. sometimes i seen some sites with no backlinks get PR1 (Even newer site). Does anyone know how this is possible?
Sujan,
Web Design Bangladesh (http://websitedesignbangladesh.com/)
www.GameFriends.com
06-09-2009, 03:17 AM
Sounds like a very unique situation...one that may be caused by improper link structure. Even if your inner pages are receiving more links they should be linking to the main page, so overall the main page would still have more links. Either way it's not a bad thing..just means you have great inner pages.
It's quite possible that one of your inner pages is actually linked from offsite which is a vote for it in the eyes of google, giving you page rank. If you want to check your backlinks use a backlink checker (http://www.backlinkwatch.com/index.php) or perhaps try another SE such as Yahoo Site Explorer as they seem to list far more backlinks than the big G.
It could be that you have an inbound link from a forum signature, social bookmarking site, or some other source thats giving you a little link love.
A note on keyword stuffing: personally I don't believe that keyword density has anything to do with high SERP rankings; keyword relevancy is another story. If you don't believe me, find a popular subject (http://www.google.com/trends) that fits your niche and write an article on it stuffed full of keywords then see how you do; I'll bet you never see page one.
Hawkeye11
06-29-2009, 12:20 AM
You have had others link to your URL's or sub pages that then pass on their page rank onto those pages... every url is considered separate so you could very well have a higher PR on one of your URL's instead of your domain
Jenie0109
08-10-2009, 06:38 AM
keyword stuffing with hyperlinks is also called a link farm...which will do no good
Hawkeye11
08-10-2009, 09:58 AM
Avoid link farms at all costs...
Jenie0109
08-14-2009, 06:00 AM
well if you want your website penalized by SE...then do link farm :P
SaLeax
08-24-2009, 07:49 PM
How can an internet novice find the page rank for a site they developed? Is there a site where I can simply go and type the address of the site and find the rank?
The Old Sarge
08-25-2009, 12:04 PM
Yes, there are lots of them. Here are the first three that come to mind.
http://www.prchecker.info/check_page_rank.php
http://www.pageranktool.net/
http://www.iwebtool.com/visual_pagerank
danviettravel
10-05-2009, 12:34 PM
For my new site, the homepage has a PR 1/10 but the "link exchange page" is 2/10. It was like that for few days then the PR 2/10 disappeared from my "link exchange" page! But some days later it came back for 5 days and left again. I do not know what happened! Now I only get PR1/10 on the hompage!
Any one has the same problem?
The Old Sarge
10-15-2009, 10:36 AM
It's not a probelm. It's just the way Google does it. Your particular situation may have come about as a result of following all the links and completing the circle.
bventsongs
03-18-2012, 01:53 AM
It is good sharing
i like this discussion.................
aquariusmediaa
03-18-2012, 05:07 AM
i want to say thanks all of members.. they have shared really very usefull info ... this info very help full for me...
turkeyhomes
03-19-2012, 11:09 AM
It is good sharing i like this discussion.................
i want to say thanks all of members.. they have shared really very usefull info ... this info very help full for me...
If nothing else can be thought of to say, there is always "thanks for sharing" or perhaps "nice tips" to boost the post count.
Contribution to the discussion? zero.
adumpaul
03-31-2012, 06:56 AM
It may happen that inner page have better content that like user so inner page have high P.R than home page.
turkeyhomes
04-02-2012, 02:46 AM
It may happen that inner page have better content that like user so inner page have high P.R than home page.
It would not be the content itself that would directly lead to a higher PR, but other sites choosing to link to it.
jennymiller
04-03-2012, 11:57 PM
I am having similar situation too. So I have one question. What kind of link juice would my site get if it gets backlink from a page which is PR 0 but its domain is PR4?
turkeyhomes
04-09-2012, 07:53 AM
I am having similar situation too. So I have one question. What kind of link juice would my site get if it gets backlink from a page which is PR 0 but its domain is PR4?
That's a different topic really, but the current calculation for this isn't known.
However, as many sites have inner pages of PR0 it is often all that's available so you get whatever you get!
Incidentally, the domain doesn't have PR, it is given to individual pages so that in your example the PR4 would be the PR of the home page of that site.
SEOJedi
04-13-2012, 04:30 PM
simons1321
You seem to have mis-quoted me here. I didn't say I demand a PR 4 or higher. I'm basically saying that many clients of SEO companies have heard about Google PR and are instructing the company to achieve a higher PR value for their site, thereby adding further pressure to the SEO task.
I wrote:
simons1321
Agreed, but I'd rather have a site with unbroken code, that works on all the major browsers and that's easy for the robots to digest. If you disagree with standards compliancy then fine, that's your decision. Nobody can agree on validation http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum3/16364.htm but if there's the slightest chance having a site that doesn't validate affects your rankings in any way, then surely it makes sense to fix it. I mean, we're not talking rocket science here! You'd be surprised at how many people don't even have a DOCTYPE declaration.
simons1321
When my site gets as big as any of the ones you have mentioned, then I'll probably dump my clean code practise. Until then, I'll carry on doing what works for me: Regular unique, fresh content. Careful linking strategy. Clean code.
RDT. If you don't like people trying to help by making suggestions, then I recommend you stay clear of forums and just carry on the way you are. Try looking past the end of your nose for a change. BTW, just did a search for: Life and Health Insurance Florida on Google. :)
Don't bother replying guys, as I can see which way this thread is developing, but before you dismiss every suggestion with a wave of the hand I'd seriously consider taking a look at the broader picture. My site affords me a very comfortable living, and I know what it took to get me here. :)
Last word:
You seem to be an expert simons1321 so I thought I too ought to listen to your excellent theory on why RDT's sub pages have a higher PR than the home page.
You wrote:
Well, I just did that and guess what, drum roll please ..................................zilch, nada, nothing. Not one page linking to the 'Auto Insurance' page at: http://www.floridalifeandhealth.com/lmanager6.html
I rest my case.
Enjoy each other guys. :)
HAhahaha love it!!!
Just one thing, im doing a case study to see if one can hurt a competitor using unnatural link building. Now, during this case study I ran a little test, I built two free wordpress sites very identical and I gave each one, one link from one blogs. One link from a PR 3 and one with a PR 2. the next day the blog that had the higher page rank linking in was on the 2nd page of Google. The blog with the PR 2 linking in was on the 7th page.
In my case study PR did matter. this test was done last week.
Try it out for yourself, build two free wordpress sites and build one link to each from external blogs with different PRs.
I work for an SEO company as well, I usually tell my customer before I start working, that every keyword is different and will have a specific strategy to get results. What works for one niche most likely will not work for another.
PR is a small factor when ranking for a national keyword. However, for long tail smaller keywords that are not as competitive IMO after the case study, it will have an influence.
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