Newbie here - Relevant links campaign question - .asp sites

[keeganskorner]

I've been reading as much as possible, but I have a question that I can't quite find an answer to...

Just started a links campaign about 2 months ago, and I'm seeing quite a few relevant sites that won't link with me (or at least they haven't yet) because I am not indexed with Google, and have no page rank. I'm okay in Yahoo/MSN, but I guess I can understand that - but didn't we all have to start somewhere? :( Will I really drag them down in PR?

The real question is that some peeps are also qualifying that the links pages must have a PR3 or above.

Many of the sites I'm linking to are database (.asp) sites, and although their static home page may be ranked, their links pages are not - probably due to the dynamic status. Does that mean that Google won't 'credit' those reciprocal links to me? Is it a waste of time linking with .asp links pages?

I hope at least one of you says no. :)

Just so you know, my site is dynamic also, but I had a url rewrite done on it about a month ago (after I learned the difference between dynamic and static). (http://www.keeganskorner.com)

Now, if you check my links page, I just added about 20 sites today, so it's not as bad as it looks at first glance from a reciprocal standpoint.

Help the newbie please? And, if I am way off base, just tell me.

Thanks!

Lisa

[QuickCarl]

Hi Lisa,

I'm sort of in the same boat as you. We have a page rank of "0" and have only been live for about 6 weeks. I have read as much as I can about SEO, page rank, inbound and outbound linking, till the point my head hurts.

We are currently ranked in the top 10 on several searches on Google, in the top 30 on Yahoo (without being in the directory), and we are #1 on MSN for about 10 search terms.

Not sure that there is a problem getting links from a 0 page on a fairly highly PR ranked site, as PR is supposed to be shared among on the pages and it seems to be a logarithmic scale. What I can sympathize with is the sites that don't want to link with you because you don't have a PR over (insert arbitrary number here). Silly practice, and when I have a PR of 6 or so, they are going to be sad that they mistreated me.... but I digress.

Best advice I can give, make your site useful, well run, coded well, with good content. Work on links everyday but be patient. PR will come, but SERP is much more important.

Just my 1/50th of a dollar.

[Phil Staff]

Carl said it well:


Best advice I can give, make your site useful, well run, coded well, with good content. Work on links everyday but be patient. PR will come, but SERP is much more important.


1. To more specifically answer your questions. Yes everyone has to start somewhere (PR0) and I think that many webmasters forget how difficult the start was for them back then.

2. I don't think that linking with a PR site that is lower will get your site downgraded just for that reason. If the other site is very relevant to your site and would be a good benefit to your end users you should swap links with them regardless of PR.

Those sites that say they will only swap with PRX sites may actually be hurting themselves more then they think. Google says on their site: "Don't participate in link schemes designed to increase your site's ranking or PageRank."

To me personally a site that refuses to link with another relevant site because the other site has a lower PR than mine should be considered gamesmanship by the search engines. Simply swapping links with the same or higher PR ONLY makes me think they are only exchanging links to better their rankings and not to improve their visitors experience.

Many people on the internet regard PR as much more valuable then it really is. PR is only one aspect of what Google takes into consideration in it's results. It is widely known on the Internet that PageRank was never intended to be taken so seriously and should only be used as a rough guide to a page's popularity.

We currently have a long discussion about PageRank here in this forum: http://forums.linkpartners.com/showthread.php?t=12 .

Again I just want to re-enforce that PR is only one aspect of SEO **AND** is only a factor with Google's search engine. Yahoo, MSN and the others do not consider PageRank as that is a service specific to Google.

Content is also a large factor which I recently myself learned after not updating my website content and sliding 30 or 40 positions on all the search engines. Linking is also important as that is what the Internet is (a bunch of sites linking to each other) but is not the only factor.

The most important thing we always repeat at LinkPartners and LinksManager is to link with your end-user in mind. Ask yourself, "Would I still be doing this if the search engines didn't exist?" or "Does what I am doing benefit my users and better the Internet". If the answer if YES then keep doing it; however, if you are unsure I would recommend seeking more advice before doing something that you may be punished for later. I know those are pie in the sky questions but in reality they are very important. We would never recommend or suggest anything to our users that could even possibly damage their rankings, after all our success depends upon your success.

Want to know what kind of stuff Google is looking for in a quality link campaign check out the Google Patent Article here: http://www.linksmanager.com/googlepatent.html .

Really the article above is very recommended reading!

Hopefully this information helps to answer your questions. There is a ton of information on the Internet about this subject and everyone seems to be a pro at SEO and claim to have the secrets. The truth is there are no secrets, just common sense.

Phil

[hshachter]

Hi Phil,

You didn't answer the question about the .asp link pages and how they get viewed by the search engines.

I have been a Links Partner for about six months; this is the strategy that I use.

I am now getting 10 to 15 link requests a week. I view each of the home pages to determine whether the requestor is relevant to my reader. I then look for the link to their links page. Sometime it is links, other times resources, but if I cannot get to the links page from their home page, neither can other visitors, and they cannot find me.

If I can find the links page, I then look at the Cached Snapshot from the Google Toolbar. If there is no cached snapshot, then Google's robot has not been able to visit and record whatever linking is going on.

I don't know whether this logic is right or not; I only approve one or two links a week, sometime none.

Comments?

Howard Shachter
www.seepage.com

[Phil Staff]

Thank you for your response.

The LinksManager Reciprocal Link Checker is able to find some reciprocal links on sites using asp. I think it depends on how the other site is linking back. Some asp sites draw their data directly from a database and use a redirect command or other dynamic variable in order to open a new window with that link. These types of dynamic links probably will not be found or counted correctly.

We have users that have their entire site designed in asp and their links are being indexed as far as I have seen. The LM Link Checker works very much like a search engine does. While not exactly and especially not as intense as the Google Bot, there may be differences in the findings. If there is no cached shot at Google it may be that they just haven't indexed that page yet or like you said cannot index that page.

If you feel some highly relevant links are not being counted, please let Google know about it by posting to http://groups.google.com/group/Google_Webmaster_Help. The more they hear from webmasters regarding the issue, the more likely they will continue to tweak their algorithm to reward webmasters who are linking with high relevancy.


You are correct that the home page needs to have a link to the links pages. This is a main requirement of all LinkPartners sites before their listing is approved. You are correct that if you cannot find their links pages then the search engines probably cannot either.

Please keep in mind that linking should always be done for your end user and not just to improve search engine rankings. Focusing on your end user will produce better results in the long term. If the site is relevant to your site and benefits your end user you should consider keeping that link regardless of if they link back or not. The search engines expect some links to not be reciprocating.

This is all just speculation and recommendation. Each site can vary widely and the results from Google can also vary. That is why we always recommend linking for your "end user".

If you wanted to review specific site examples I would be happy to comment; however, in the end I cannot provide any specifics for how Google treats any site.

Hopefully this helps,

Phil

[hshachter]

If there is no cached shot at Google it may be that they just haven't indexed that page yet or like you said cannot index that page.



When I see a page with 25 or 50 or 100 links on it, and no Google cache, it is a pretty good bet that my link will not be seen by G. and therefore do no good. http://forums.linkpartners.com/images/icons/icon9.gif Why would a webmaster set up his site like that?

[ldylion214]

I've been reading as much as possible, but I have a question that I can't quite find an answer to...

Just started a links campaign about 2 months ago, and I'm seeing quite a few relevant sites that won't link with me (or at least they haven't yet) because I am not indexed with Google, and have no page rank. I'm okay in Yahoo/MSN, but I guess I can understand that - but didn't we all have to start somewhere? :( Will I really drag them down in PR?

The real question is that some peeps are also qualifying that the links pages must have a PR3 or above.

Many of the sites I'm linking to are database (.asp) sites, and although their static home page may be ranked, their links pages are not - probably due to the dynamic status. Does that mean that Google won't 'credit' those reciprocal links to me? Is it a waste of time linking with .asp links pages?

I hope at least one of you says no. :)

Just so you know, my site is dynamic also, but I had a url rewrite done on it about a month ago (after I learned the difference between dynamic and static). (http://www.keeganskorner.com)

Now, if you check my links page, I just added about 20 sites today, so it's not as bad as it looks at first glance from a reciprocal standpoint.

Help the newbie please? And, if I am way off base, just tell me.

Thanks!

Lisa

Hi Lisa,
Im glad I read your post. I also have an .asp site. I've been reading about rewrites. My links pages were at one time ranked but now they are not. I didn't realize this could be why. Anyway I do not wish to steer off your subject just wanted to say I'm glad I read this.
Best, Nicci